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00:00 / 40:32

Max (00:00):
I'm just trying to be honest with myself, like when I make these songs. So it's like songwriting started for me when I was like 11 and I was just trying to write about my day, you know, I was just having a time in middle school, like everybody else. And I was just like trying to write like Beatles songs, all my songs still have this part of like something very private. It's like a, like a journal entry on most, or like a poem that I'm writing for myself to be able to, I don't know, I guess deal with whatever feelings I'm having at the time.

Radio Intro (00:27):
Goldfish interview episode one,

Max (00:32):
I started, I started, my first instrument was ukulele when I was, uh, like summer heading into middle school <affirmative> but I started, I picked up guitar in the sixth grade and I didn't really learn guitar the way you're supposed to. I kind of just like wanted to play Beatles songs, but I was never classically trained in any instrument. My dad just played guitar and always had instruments around and was a big music geek and my brother played guitar and he was really good. And my grandfather on mom's side was, um, was like a classically trained guitarist. My mom, like when she was in college had this like eighties, techno local Miami band called beat reaction. Cool. Uh, they were, they were really cool. I mean, if you like any of that, but that's sort of like Miami club sound like techno eighties. Really?

Max (01:22):
Yeah. And I with it super hard. So music was always kind of there and like family parties, people would pick up an instrument. I'd always do it. So it was always something like I had an interest in. Um, but it was never like, it wasn't until probably like a, a couple years ago that I was trying to focus on like scales improv and like soloing and different like that. Well, I guess the songs I wrote like three years ago, four years ago, or something like that. And then I kind of went and assembled. It's like the songs that are on the CP were kind of what became the wax forms project. And then, you know, it was just a bunch of years going through the different lineups musicians would come in and come out and, uh, some would stay along. And then it was kind of with this lineup, um, that we decided, all right, like we've kind of honed in on the sound that we wanted and that we think max wanted.

Max (02:15):
So let's go up and let's record this. And we went up to west Palm beach, uh, pretty lane records. Uh, our buddy Cole train recorded it, super awesome dude records with all this like really vintage gear, which is like the reason why we wanted to go. And I had never really recorded anything. Like to that extent, I guess we've recorded for like 12 hours. And it was a super, you know, like we were just talking about it, that I, we played all of our instruments in like one room and like corded everything at the same time, which, and it's, it wasn't a small room, but like, you could hear it's called bleeding. You know, you could hear every instrument, you know, you're like listening to like this part of the drum kit, but it's really like, I can hear the guitar perfectly well, you know, and it make, it made it super difficult for Ryan and Chris were mainly the ones that were like editing the whole thing.

Max (03:05):
And I didn't, you know, I'd never edited anything like that before. And I just wanted it to feel raw. You know, we wanted it all to have like that same feeling. Yeah. We are in this room and we're just playing it in this garage and, uh, you know, and it came out dirty. It came out the way that we had wanted, we felt, okay. Yeah, that's that's us. And, and then it took literally a year to mix and master and produce just because at the same time, you know, we're playing shows and, and there were a lot of songs too, that we just, you know, had to totally play around with. Uh, you know, it wasn't like we could go back and rerecord anything. It wasn't like we tracked it clean enough to be able to go and just record one thing. It was like, no, we have to deal with what we've got the wax rooms on that are me, Ryan Garcia, Caleb car on drums.

Max (03:54):
Ryan Garcia is on lead guitar. Uh, Emma Sherman on rhythm guitar, uh, Alejandro Velo on piano and, uh, on the EP it's Chris Hurst on bass. And he is also like a producer on that album too. Him and Ryan kind of produced everything. And now everybody that's in it is, you know, super, uh, like motivated. And we all felt, you know, after the EP dropped too, for those of us who had been in the whole process for that, you know, it took a year to produce that thing just because of a bunch of different things. Uh, it felt really good to finally get it out. It was like a load off. We became friends kind of just through like practices, cuz it was like, oh, I either needed somebody to fill in on something for the show or I needed somebody to, you know, record drums for this track.

Max (04:47):
And then through there, everybody kind of just ended up sticking around because they liked the songs. And then also didn't mind playing some shows. And then now that's everybody that we've got, uh, started going to like open mics and playing songs. And I started recording the songs myself and putting them online. I recorded a and lovely Zady, like an early version of it and just dropped it myself. Didn't promote it or anything. I didn't even have an Instagram for the band yet. I was just like, oh, like, this is my band, the wax worms. And I wasn't really telling anybody it was just me. Um, and then I show it to my friend Ariel, like some of the songs I've been working on and he was like, you know, you should like do something with these. You should kind of put 'em out there and, and get serious with it.

Max (05:31):
And then I was in a time in my life where I was kinda like, well, I don't really have anything else to lose. So I guess I will. And I started going to the open mic at Churchills on Monday nights, every Monday, literally every Monday I would be out there and I'd be playing. Yeah, no one like suck dude. They're terrible. I mean, they're, they're awesome because they allow people to, you know, just no rules. Like I can go do whatever the I want. And like, you know, know if you wanna listen, you can stay and whatever. But like at the same time, like the way that Churchills runs, the open mic is just terrible. I mean, it's just like, they're just mean and like nobody wants to be there. And then also you have people like, you know, it's Monday at 2:00 AM and you have people going up there acting like they're playing in for Carnegie hall or they're playing for, you have people with such egos at this like open mic.

Max (06:20):
And I'm like, dude, like it's nobody wants that. Nobody wants to see you think you're the greatest in, in a crowd of 12 people when I'm like, you know, I don't know, it. Like it's just hot. And I don't know, it was, it was really whatever, like probably the most open mic experience people can have. But I did that every night, every Monday night for a while. And then, um, met my first drummer, Alex, uh, kind of reconnected with him because he had been he's the older brother of like a good friend of mine from middle school. And then he had come to that open mic and then was like, yo, I'm a drummer. Do you need a drummer? And spoke to him, spoke to a few other people. And then, you know, at another open mic met, uh, my first guitarist, Edward James, and then through ed met Alejandro, who's still in the band, our keyboardist.

Max (07:22):
Um, and he, he actually, I met him at our first wax room show. It was at the travelers lounge, which is now closed, but it was like a part of like a little hotel, like a little bar area or whatever, uh, and uh, met him. And then it was pretty much like, you know, how to play keys. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. Come to practice and we'll see. And then literally three years later, he's still in the band and then some things changed. Alex introduced us to this dude, Nico, Nico ROHO. Uh, and then he became our first basis. Um, and he was really cool. He was from Palm beach and was, uh, finishing his last semester at FIU when we met him. Um, and then he put us into contact with Keenan who would later become our guitarist, uh, because Keenan was originally supposed to become the producer.

Max (08:15):
Uh, he had just, you know, his bedroom, he had kind of turned into like a little studio, yo space or whatever, like a little recording space. And uh, you know, the songs are simple enough that they didn't think was gonna be such a crazy production and they were so wrong. Um, and then that's when kind of Nico had told me like, okay, like I've had enough, like, you know, this is just crazy. Like I'm not gonna be the basis and the producer and the drummer for this group, like this is crazy. I'm not gonna, you know, be in two, be in two cities all the time. Like it's crazy, you know, everything was set up to fail. And then that's when Nico dropped out and then Keenan was like, well, I'm kind of dropping out too, but I'm not gonna leave you guys hanging with the EP.

Max (08:57):
So if you still gotta finish it with me, you can. And it was, and he was like, you know, any show that you guys get, if you need a guitarist, if I can make it, I'll, I'll play with you guys. And then fast forward to the plow show or whatever. Right. Um, that pat wanted us to play <affirmative> at that time, it was really just me and all. And then it was like Allie and I kind of just looked at each other and we were like, well, we've made it through all this and all the lineups and you know, we're still here. So let's just get back to work. It's been a, I think a, it's been a little over a year with, it's been almost, I think it's been like a year and a half with everybody, except for Jesse. Jesse came on almost a year ago.

Max (09:42):
I kind of more so, like I get, I mean, sometimes I get like a feeling that I feel like I need to write a song or I feel like I need to talk about something or something's been troubling me or, or something's been under the surface that I haven't really acknowledged or no one was there. And then I sit down and I'm noodle around with some chords for a little bit. And then like, I end up finding a melody that allows me to start spurting some gibberish. And then eventually those, you know, gibberish sounds kind of start becoming words and whatever kind of naturally comes out does. And then if I've feel like, oh, this is a better rhyme or like, this is, oh, this is cooler. But sometimes I'll go in because I'm like, no, like now this sounds too serious. Like I need to like throw in a joke somewhere or something.

Max (10:24):
And I don't know. I mean, I definitely still, like, I always feel like if I have that feeling of like, I need to write a song like it, you know, whether, or it's a song I like that comes out of that. It's like, it still needs to come out for me to like, get the song that's behind that one. I don't know. It's hard to explain or, and sometimes, you know, like it'll start as one song and then like I have this other song and the songs are whatever, but I really like these two little bits in it. So then I'll just like scrap rest and then combine 'em or something. I was like 18 or 19 or something. And I just started, I just graduated high school and started writing these songs that would become like the sort of wax forms project I wrote like lovely 80.

Max (11:11):
And I wrote, ah, and I wrote, uh, the view. Um, and then Matilda actually came quite later till it came way later, but we wanted to throw that one on. Anyway, I was basically the realization that, you know, I had just broken up with like my long term, you know, girlfriend ex-girlfriend now. And then, uh, I was sort of the first time that I had sat down by myself with an instrument and was just like, ah, you know, I'm pretty alone by right now. And the first lyrics in a are ah, feeling so alone. And then, um, the view I wrote one morning when I woke up, um, just because I was also just very confused and, you know, I never, I don't know, just relationship, you know what I mean? Like it was just going through a rough patch and then, you know, woke up one morning and was feeling particularly down.

Max (12:02):
And I was just like, well, you know what, the only reason I'm feeling down is because, you know, this person's perspective is wrong and like, you know, it must be the view. So that's, you know, uh, that, that's how that one came about. And then Lovely's Sadie was just, I was smoking a ton of weed. Sadie's my dog. Yeah. Well, it's more my mom's dog now because, but I lived with Sadie for a long time and we became super close and I was totally her favorite. And she, uh, you know, there was just many times that I'd just be, you know, out in the backyard doing and whatever, and just look at Zady and I'd just be like, oh my God, like, I love this dog. And I wanted to make like an Anthem for her. And I wrote that one. And then all I want was written the same day that I wrote the view, just because I wrote like a, in the nighttime and then wrote the view that next morning.

Max (12:52):
And then I wrote all, I, it pretty much like that afternoon or the next afternoon or whatever. And it was just because I had found this, like, I don't know, I found like a way to write songs that was really comfortable with me, cuz I had been in a, like a little project in like high school with some friends or whatever and you know, the lyrics were good. Like I like, I definitely like the songs. I didn't really like how the whole project kind of came out just because I wasn't really giving it the attention it needed, but you know, I always felt like I was writing songs in a certain way for that. And like I could do that. But then I felt with the wax worms, I started kind of like, I rediscovered like my love for the Beatles or whatever. Cuz I had been listened.

Max (13:33):
I'm a Beatles weirdo. I mean, you, you know that and I'm like, I don't know, I've listened to them my whole life, but I had like stopped for a while cause they weren't on Spotify and they weren't on any of these things. And then they got on Spotify that summer that I had started writing the songs for the wax forms again. And I was like, oh, like, I really love these dudes. And they kind of helped me just channel that sort of, you know, poppy, sixties, songwriting or whatever that we're trying to do. I don't even really know what you would call cuz it's like, I mean it's indie rock, right? Cuz we're independent musicians. That's, you know, indie independent and it's rock. But like we call it rock and stroll. It's a joke cuz it's like soft rock or whatever. I don't know.

Max (14:14):
We just, you, I don't know. It's just, it's Indy, whatever you call it, what you will with now, the way that we've been like with the song I was showing you like no sugar, whatever the new one that we're gonna do. And like, and I pick up the guitar and I just start noodling around, find those three super easy basic chords and then it kind of just started it coming out. And I just, I started trying to write like sort of like a disco song, but like I don't know how to write disco <laugh> so it kind of came out all slow and like, you know, weird. And uh, and yeah, and it was just like, I don't know me sort of telling myself to take it easy, I guess. Uh, it definitely wouldn't sound anything like it does without everybody who's in the wax worms.

Max (15:03):
I mean like everybody who joined as a crazy musician and like really good whether or not whether they think that or not, they are. And I just kind of, you know, they liked my songwriting and they liked what I was saying and the way that I sing and the kind of sound I was after and they stuck around and uh, no sugar and all these other songs. Um, definitely, yeah, they've definitely left their mark. They would've sounded totally different. Had I been doing everything on my own? It's definitely a team effort. Well it definitely, it stalled the recording process because we had started with demos and then, you know, started new demos and then left those and whatever and it became, and then we recorded the FIU songs, like the two, ah, and lovelies, eighties, some original recordings for that. And then, and um, and then that's when we decided like when we had the lineup we wanted with Chris on base and with uh, the, the lineup before this lineup.

Max (16:03):
So Chris is the only one that's still in, right. Jesse isn't in the band yet. Um, was, and it was Chris's idea to record at pretty lane because he was like, look, I think that keep some of the it's gonna sound obviously different. So we should just record it the way that we play it now. And let's just all play it in a room and that's gonna get that kind of lofi DIY garage sound that you wanted. And I was like, for sure, but I think, uh, you know, these lineups have, and the switching of line lineups has kind of, you know, I, when I started the band, I was kind of, I wasn't a good guitarist and I don't think I, I am still, but I've gotten a lot better in my instrument because I've been able to play with this, like, you know, revolving act of like really good musicians.

Max (16:53):
And then, like I said, Nico and Keenan were really the ones who were showing me a bunch of really cool new music and just a way of looking at like guitar and recording in general that I had not even considered. They just kind of showed me that whole thing. And um, and then it's helped definitely shape what the wax swarms are now. But, you know, with every lineup, everybody brings in their own skills and their own influences and their own little mark that they're gonna leave. And I don't know, the wax worms project has always just been something that like, I know I'm gonna do, regardless of whether I'm making money off it or not. And you know, I've been in this band for three years, we don't make any money off of it. And it's just kind of like, well the songs keep coming and we want to keep playing with each other.

Max (17:39):
So we're just gonna write it out. Yeah. Now we're working on three songs we're working on, uh, they're called no sugar alone with you. And Donny says, uh, we don't know how we're gonna release 'em, but, uh, these are songs, well, no sugar and loan with you are songs that we've been playing live, like with the songs that are on the EP. So it's kind of, for those people who come to our shows, it's sort of just like, well, like <affirmative>, you know, here you go, like, here are the songs you all know, and that you've all heard. Like here they are on Spotify, you can listen to 'em and then we have a, a bunch of other songs kind of just, you know, at the bottom of the cupboard that we kind of wanna work on together and stuff that, uh, you know, other members are writing or like little snippets that I write or so we're kind of releasing these as sort of like to complete the set of like everything anybody has ever heard of the wax forms, if you've come to like a live show, just so that we can kind of move on to like writing you.

Max (18:42):
And like kind of putting out Donny says is one that nobody's heard, but no sugar and loan with you. We've been playing live Ryan's parents come to every show. Uh, and that's always nice. Um, and we have pretty much, you know, the same friends coming out to every show and uh, sometimes people can't make it. So, you know, sometimes you see some people at one show and not the others, but it's generally just usually our friends and we played the years before, but it's always funer to play to friends. Well, you were the one that told me about how, like, I forgot what show we were playing or something, but you told me you were like, yo, some, two random girls at like a gas station. I was just standing in line behind of we're like, yo, like the wax rooms are playing tonight and that's still super surreal to me because we've got like, I mean, we only have like 500 something followers, you know what I mean?

Max (19:33):
Like, I guess we have as many followers as like my high school had students. So like, that's pretty cool, but like, it was a pretty small high school, but yeah, no, I mean, we definitely haven't and I don't know what the future of, of like live shows are gonna be for quite some time. We wanted to be able to, you know, we wanted to have like a listening party with the EP dropping. We wanted to, you know, have a show and, you know, do all the promotional stuff you're supposed to do, put out the merch, you know, just be playing shows constantly, cuz you just drop some hot, you know? Um, but because the pandemic hit, the pandemic actually helped us finish the EP faster cuz we to the EP through like zoom that like Ryan would be editing and sharing his screen and then Ali and I would just come on and be like, okay, like, uh, you know, just editing it with him while we had to be separated and it kind of helped us organize and get the out faster.

Max (20:29):
Um, and then my friend hat from FIU radio rights for the Miami new times. So then she was like, okay, well let me write about the EP. Let me know when it's out. So then she wrote about it pretty quickly after. I mean we wanted to be able to go and play shows and have a music video and you know, do all the things they're supposed to do. But since we kind of knew that wasn't an option, we kind of just dropped the EP and then, you know, took a little vacation for a little bit and uh, just got right back to work. We were like, all right, well let's just get these other songs out. Just like we've seen the way that crowds react to those songs at shows. And we know that those are like really strong and like those are ones that we also have like a really personal connection to.

Max (21:14):
So we are kind of just like, and they're more upbeat and they're fun. And we're like, we feel, we definitely identify more with that. And then the other with the songs that we're coming out with now, no sugar and alone with you. And then other thing that, um, we're, that's different about these songs coming out compared to the EP is that, you know, now we have Jesse on base. So it's like Jesse's coming into the group now. It's like the, the, the most recent evolved form of the wax form. Right. Um, but you know, we've kind of always just been like, like I said before, like we didn't really play shows too often anyway to begin with. And it was kind of more about like working on these songs that we wanted to release. So now we're kind of just still in our element. We're just like in the studio just trying to work, but remotely, I wish I knew how to not get so caught up in the recording process too, cuz it was definitely like hacking through a super entangled jungle trying to kind of make something of what these songs are gonna be.

Max (22:19):
And like, uh, some of 'em we knew what we wanted, some of 'em, you know, and while we're working on this and, and on the mixing sessions and all this sort of stuff, you know, my perspective's changing on what it is. And also everybody's perspective is changing on, you know, we thought it was gonna sound a certain way and then we're looking at this and even though it's close to what it sounded, it's not exactly what we had in our head. And um, just, I, I wish I also knew how to understand that like your first TP isn't like your Magnum Opus, you know what I mean? Like just drop that. Just drop it so you can get to the other. We've kind of made a pact now as a band. Like we are not sitting on music like that, like for a long time.

Max (23:03):
Yeah. Like until we have like, you know, like we're doing a double LP and we've done whatever man with tours and you know, we want to do like a concept album or something like, cuz I'm always down to experiment in the studio. But when you, when you work on songs for that long, you get really insecure about 'em and you kind of just like, it's like, if you're just holding them hostage, you know, and you're like, no, they need to, you know, hear and like these little details. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, well, what are you trying to, you know? Yeah. There's like an obvious line where like, okay, like if you, if you don't do this, then it just sounds sloppy. And it just sounds like. But then there's definitely, you know, we totally overworked some. We, we spent weeks working on something that then we deleted and just totally threw out.

Max (23:48):
And it was like, and it was all just because of my, you know, these songs that we were putting together I'd written three years ago, you know? And it was like, no, they have to be exactly. And it was something too that, you know, we wanted to have more of an organic feel and more so it's like, why am I obsessing over this in the first place? You know what I mean? Like it was supposed to just be like a jam session, you know? Um, and I think it still got like that and it definitely, you know, some songs needed more work than others and we did that, but I think that I, I definitely just wish I knew more about the record process, but it's it's necessary. I just wish we didn't take too long on it because that first EP is a necessary step that any band has to take.

Max (24:33):
And it just shouldn't be, you shouldn't overthink it. You should just drop it. You know? Like it should just sound like how it sounds. It shouldn't, you shouldn't try and make it. You also shouldn't compare yourself to like prof professional musicians that are using professional equipment that are using all this, you know, it's just not gonna sound like that. It's gonna sound like you. So just try and make it sound as good as you can. And just like, I don't know, like don't sweat it. The first EP is definitely like taking raw energy and trying to earned it into this like really crafted, like perfect song and kind of overworking it to the point where then we kind of had to roll back a little bit and then just drop it. But now the view for the, the, the next releases that we're gonna do is like, don't sit on for too long.

Max (25:22):
Just get that out. And we're recording it clean and we're doing it remote. I mean, everything we're doing, everybody's tracking their instruments in their room and like, we're just, you know, sending it to Ryan who's then putting it together on his thing. And so far, like just the, I mean, you heard it just tracked thing. Like that's not mastered, that's not mixed or whatever. And I personally feel like it's such a step up because even though I was so like against wanting to do everything, like the way, the way you're supposed to, you know, now I see that in doing it this way. It, it brings me closer to the sound that I'm trying to get. Our friends were telling us, like, cuz you know, we'd edit something for a while and it gets to the point where like you hear something so long or like so many times that like, you can't hear it anymore.

Max (26:07):
It's just like, I don't. And not that you're like, oh, I don't want to hear it. It's I mean that too, but that like, I'm listening to it. And I'm like, I literally can't like, I don't know what we're working on. You know what I mean? I don't know what I'm doing. Uh, and our friends would just be like, yo, just drop that like way before, like way like months before we dropped it, like months and months before we dropped it every time we'd be like, okay, what do you think of this? There's like, same. I thought, you know, two months ago, bro, like these songs are good. Just drop 'em. Yeah, we definitely, definitely got super, I got super in my head about it and you know, once we dropped it, it was just this super big sense of relief. And like everybody really liked it and or everybody who we cared about really liked it, which is important.

Max (26:56):
And then we were kind of just like, all right onto the next adventure it's it's like overworking anything it's like overworking a pain or something. You know, there's like a point where you reach where you know that you can keep going, but should you, I think though that the kind of philosophy that we all have is now, you know, we, you know, we're still gonna be a low five band because we don't have money and we don't have like great equipment and it's never gonna sound super clean and professional, but we're, we're trying to make it sound as clean as lofi can be still like within that. And you know, we want happier funer songs, you know, the thing we don't, you know, I, I, I write a lot of slow, sad, but like I also write some like fun, like, you know, more upbeat stuff.

Max (27:40):
And that's the stuff that we kind of that's that's the feeling I, I want now mentally we're all in a better place. Our, um, our Mojo's up, you know, fired up. We dropped this album and we were like, all right. Yep. Let's get back to work. And everybody just feels like, right. We did that that looked like it was never gonna get done, actually finished it. Uh, yeah. Let's finish the other that, you know, these songs that we already know our parts and that we know how to play. We've been playing these songs live for, I don't even know how long, you know, so let's just get 'em all out. Let's get, 'em all done. And then let's move on to the that we know is like, you know, it it's like we can see this like shine light in the distance of like, oh, like songs that we can work on together.

Max (28:29):
Like songs that are really gonna come alive, like ideas that I know I've had that I've had to be like, okay, well I know I need to bring this song to Caleb so that he can show me how to get to the next part in this process. It's with having this lineup, I've, I've become more like, uh, uh, I don't know. I've, I've felt like my songwriting process become more like, uh, yeah. It's like I have the team effort now. And I, I, before, like when I was writing these songs, it was like I was writing them, expecting me to be the only person. Yeah. So when we put those out, it wasn't that I was telling these people what to play, but it was like, you know, we had our own sound and we had, or I had a sound in my head that I wanted, you know?

Max (29:12):
Um, but with, you know, the songs that we're trying to release and all the stuff that we have kind of in the bottom of the cupboard now, when I start trying to write a song, I, I can still write songs on my own, but it's more so that I'm like, I have this team of like super talented creative people with me all the time that are now, we're all on the same wavelength. And we all know what the wax form sound is like. And we all know that we want to keep exploring that and developing that. So it's like, why am I gonna sit here and write a song by myself in my room when I can start writing a song by myself in my room and then be like, okay, this is enough to take it to these guys because I, I feel like if I, so this hypothetical song that I write by myself in my room, if I finish that song totally by myself in the room, it's still gonna need some extra ooph from the rest of the group.

Max (30:08):
Right. I would still need to bring it to them so that Caleb can lay down drums and that they can add all these little things and, you know, so that we can make mistakes and find new, you know, ways that the song can go. But I have just like, I don't know, my perspective has just become, like, I'd rather write songs with the group. And, and it's because like, and on the tracks that we're trying to release now, like the one that I had showed you is snippet it of, or whatever those songs, I mean, all the songs wouldn't be able to sound like how they sound like without all the people that are in it. But the songs that are coming in the future are like a hundred times more of a team effort and they should be cuz that's how we're gonna be able to develop this sound and also move forward as a band.

Max (31:00):
If I kept just writing alone in my room, it's gonna of keep sounding the same way that, that sense of confidence. Wasn't something that came easily. It came with all of the changing of, you know, of lineups and all that sort of. And there were times where I felt, you know, like, oh, this lineup is really good. Like, this is the way it's supposed to stay. And then, you know, you get thrown a curve ball and, and it's not working. And then you have to just, okay, well just keep going. And then I've just always felt like, you know, as long as I'm walking down this path, there's gonna be other people who can kind of just come along and join it too. And, but it's gotten to the point now where I'm yeah, I'd say that I'm definitely way more confident in relying on these people, because they've all proven to me that they're like, we're here, you know, like we want to be a wax worm and like, we wanna help you like develop this further.

Max (31:56):
Like it's not so much like, oh, we wanna be a part of Max's band. It's like, oh, like we're growing this child that has been growing. Right. But we're just teaching it new things. It it's really, um, I've just always felt like also too, like the Waxmans has been like me who doesn't know anything about guitar or doesn't know anything about like playing any songs and I'm just doing whatever I think. Sounds cool. Um, and then, you know, we, of these classically trained musicians who then come in and are just like, oh, like, well, why do you do that? And it's like, oh, well, I don't know. Just cuz it sounds cool. Okay. Well that's actually, yeah, that's really cool. And let's help him develop that. But I, I mean, I definitely have grown as a musician because of the wax forms and because of the people that I've met along the way, all the lineups, for sure.

Max (32:47):
You know, I'd be devastated if anybody now left, but it's also, that's the, even when it feels like you can't go on, you know, that's what I was saying before that it's like, well, you really just end up back to ground. That is familiar. You know, like you're, you're back at square one, but you've been there. So you just had to start the level over again. You know what I mean? It's just like, just keep going forward. But in growing as a musician, because of having all these other revolving musicians, I've been able to then also write songs that aren't reflective of my mood and songs that, I mean, they're always gonna be reflective of who I am as a songwriter and who like, and like what I identify with because I'm the one writing those songs, but they're not gonna be like, um, I don't know, they're, they're never gonna be fake, you know, but I'll have some songs that are more serious.

Max (33:39):
It's some songs that are less serious. Like, you know, Matilda is a song about my first car, you know, that I had like killed or whatever. And then I have more serious songs about, you know, dealing with loneliness after your first relationship or whatever, like tough. I've actually been on kind of a rhythm and blues kick recently. Like I've been listening to a lot of like 50, 60 he's, um, rhythm and blues, a lot of Bo didly, he's awesome. He's one of the greats he's like, you know, one of the creators of rock and roll. Um, but listening to a lot of Bo didly, um, just found this album by Chuck Barry that I had never heard before. Um, Chuck Barry's like, you know, grandpa of rock and roll too, like, uh, you know, one of the masters or whatever. He, the album's called San Francisco dues.

Max (34:29):
It came out in 1971, really good, really awesome album. I was listening to that on the way over here and then, uh, you know, listened to some muddy waters, listening to some surf rock, but I, in on this like blues kick recently, just because, uh, I mean I've always liked blues and cuz it's also cuz it's like really easy to play. You just kind of gotta have like soul, you know? Uh, but I've been trying to for the radio station that I work at, we're trying to do shows again, like while we do 'em remotely and I want to have a blues rhythm, the show. So I've been trying to kind of hoard a bunch of, or gather a bunch of like info and all that. I, I like a lot of Cambodian rock and roll too. Um, Keenan and Nico were the ones that got me into that, that, that, and that, that totally changed.

Max (35:17):
The thing that I love about Cambodian rock is that it's so DIY, I mean literally all these people who, uh, heard whatever the American soldiers were bringing over during Vietnam and they were playing on like copies of copies of American guitars and copies and copies of, you know, American amps. There was one recording studio in the capital of Cambodia and it was one microphone that hang from the, that, that hung from the ceiling and all of them would just crowd around it. And it was just like, all right, take one, go. And everybody just goes and you hear these songs and it's some of the best rock and roll I've ever heard in my life. It's just these people going in on these instruments that you can tell are just brittle as hell. Yeah. And it's just, it's the soul that makes you wanna keep listening because they're just doing whatever, you know, and the take that they're picking is just because that one had the most ooph it's not so much like, okay, let's put this here and let's do, and I still appreciate obviously a well-crafted song, a song, you know, like whatever, but the, just the rawness that they had of it, it was so it's awesome.

Max (36:29):
And then the, the, a little bit of history then that makes it even cooler to listen to. And it's something that is definitely important is that all of these or, or, or most of the musicians that you hear of these Cambodian rock and roll musicians were murdered in this like genocide, when the Cammer Rouge, the, it was this, uh, uh, totalitarian like, uh, regime that sort of came in, turned the whole country, forced everybody into slave labor or turned everybody into farmers. It made their economy turn into, uh, they just turned everything into these rice fields and they just made their one export B agriculture by forcing everybody to become a farmer. And it was just like a concentration camp esque sort of the whole country was like this. It wasn't until they were saved by, I, I forgot who came in and, and like took the Camaro Rouge out.

Max (37:24):
This was in like the eighties. So years that they were like this, um, that, you know, they get back to the city, the capital. And when you didn't see that person that you knew it's because you knew that they were secretly murdered by the government bit. So the government secretly murdered all of these people and especially, and it was because they wanted nothing to do. They wanted everything that had to do with American imperialism out of their country. Right. So what did they start with? They started with rock and roll and all these people who had been the, these famous rock and roll musicians who had been yeah, playing the songs of things that they heard from literally American soldiers coming over this American rock and roll sound that they put their own sound on top of it. Um, and they murdered. Most of these people literally secretly like took 'em out and just killed them in a horrible genocide.

Max (38:17):
So when you're hearing some, and it's some of the big, best rock and roll, I can't stress it enough, some of the best rock and roll I've ever heard. And it's, it's the most soulful. And most of it is from dead people who were killed by the government because they were just so rock and roll. Really. I find that the things that I, that I like are people who were just not afraid in the studio to just do something that they feel so like the, with the Cambodian way, it was like, they're playing it because that's just how they're, and that's the feeling that you're capturing either way on, on both sides. You have people who aren't afraid in the studio on the Cambodian side. And on these older ones, they are like more so just raw energy in the studio. And then on the other side with the Beatles and pink Floyd and like the flaming lips, they're just trying to do weird, you know, in the studio.

Max (39:14):
And they're trying to raft a weird song, things that they like for themselves, but also something that they know is like listenable or whatever. So it's a process and everybody's trying to figure it out. And I think just the, the way to stay safe about it is to just not give yourself too much of an ego, but to be confident at the same time, which is something I've been trying to learn, cuz I've felt like I've had the whole not having an ego bit down, but more so like, it, it, and it's had like a negative impact on like how I see myself, you know, because it's been like, if I, I don't know, I felt like throughout these years I've always been very humble about like my music to the point where like, I don't even really want to like promote it like the bad and makes me promoted or like they have to remind me to do it or like they have to talk me off some like stupid ledge I'm on of like, yeah, we should just, you know, not do any of the things we're actually supposed to do if we ever wanna make money.

Max (40:09):
So I've had the whole, like, you know, you're a DIY band from Miami. You're playing these little dive bars. You're these little shows for your friends. That's beautiful in itself, you know, like that's fun on its own. So don't get a big head and just keep having fun with your friends.